Poll: Is the Tea Party good or bad for America

I don't think the tea party is interested in dividing the nation. I think the tea party members are interested in destroying this nation. I realize this sentiment is expressed in 3.1 but it bears repeating. You are on a dangerous path when you put ideology and party over what is good for the US. Furthermore, The big honchos who are associated with the tea party, the Koch Brothers and Grover Norquist, really do not gve a damn about the US. All they are interested in is $$$$$$$ and getting rid of anyone and anything tat would get in the way of them getting their hands on it.

acorn never even had a little of the power that the tea party has now.

tea party logic: there's a Kenyan of mixed race and questionable religious heritage in the White House and he's got to go. That's all you need to know.

/sarc

cfjackson, good question. Since I am not into labeling, such as, right-wing, wing nut, lefty, Socialist, lefty and so on, I will state my opinion. This is what I think. I am not saying I know it to be factual. There are onerous and deceptive wealthy contributors to this party(group) of people. The onerous and wealthy contributors are duping them into believing that they are patriots and that what they are trying to do is moral. Beware of the christian fundamentalists. I believe the supporters of the Tea Party are not very bright, and as such, dangerous.

Their one aim seems to be destruction of the very fabric of our society. Followed by complete destruction of our environment.

I think they do little but spout hatred. Perhaps our fascination with them is based, in part, in fear. Sort of like watching a real-life horror movie.

Yep Dowser, you got that right! A Zombie Horror Story~begging for Brraaaiinns! Yes too, I believe they ARE Anarchists and racists and could care less about our country as long as that "not like us" guy is removed from office! Hateful and dishonest! :-(

Worrisome.

One observation, made by several of my most respected pundits, is that they are a loosely coalescedgrouping of fanatical but disparate views. From modern day Birchers, skinheads, anti-government types, and a rag-tag group of fear motivated, uneducated sheeple. The only thing they can agree on is they hate everything anyone else stands for.

no, that would be liberalism

Awesome burn. Big help to the conversation, too.

/sarc

I have never seen non whites in any photo of Tea Party rallies. They are the sea of white that hates diversity. Don't mention illegal immigrants around them or they will launch into racist tirades against all Latino Americans.

Most if not all of the birthers are racists.

Then you have the evangelical Christian right wing involved in the Tea Party. How can people read through and memorize the New Testament about Jesus, who believed in "love thy neighbor" and turn around about face and spew hatred in all directions?

I have never seen non whites in any photo of Tea Party rallies.

Try looking at something other than HuffPo's website...

I have seen very few but I don't see 1 out of 1,000 as an impact. They sort of remind me of those blacks who fought for the south in the civil war. To afraid that the south would win and they would be punished or Stockholm syndrom.

Could it be that they weren't bussed in and might not have been able to afford the trip, or wanted to even attend the rally? Unlike the counter rally that felt the need to bus the politically correct groups for their photo ops.

How do you wrap yourself in the American flag and strut around as strict constitutionalists and end up recommending an amendment?

How do the evangelical protestant Christian Teapublicans call themselves experts on the New Testament down to always citing chapter and verse yet they hate so many of their neighbors?

What happened to "Love thy neighbor"? I assume that means irregardless of race, color or creed.

Maybe a reading comprehension problem?

The Tea Party is "the sea of white." The only way they can win elections is like they did in 2010 with just a 41 percent voter turnout. In 2012 the "ocean of diversity" needs to show up at the ballot box.

amen, mountainmike!

Tou do realize of course that the fact that more than 2 black people at any gathering of the Tea Party of a crowd of 200 is statistically more than should be there.

Citizen Kane

The Canadian Free Press??

The same publication that runs crap articles like Michelle Obama has "an unprecedented number" of white house staff on the payroll?

Here's your source's veracity, or lack of veracity: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/firstlady.asp

Care to try again?

BTW...." more than 2 black people at any gathering of the Tea Party of a crowd of 200 is statistically more than should be there."???

Are you saying that Blacks aren't welcome? We all knew that.

#3.8...

I have never seen non whites in any photo of Tea Party rallies.

Here's one and he is running for President!

http://www.hermancain.com/about

I can't believe you don't know about this guy! Could it be that the Left news media doesn't recognize him?

Suspiciously

"I can't believe you don't know about this guy!"

Could it be that the Tea Party isn't all that thrilled about promoting Herman Cain??

Suspiciously - tell you what. IF Herman Cain wins the nomination as the Republican presidential candidate, i'll eat the hat of your choice. You can bookmark this and save it just in case, by some mistake, this guy wins. Really, do you honestly think that he stands a snowballs chance in hell? Reminds me of a scene in the movie "Trading Places" where the Eddie Murphy character overhears the Duke brothers in the john. But, I wouldn't put it past the GOP/TP trying to push him for VP. After all they chose a skirt in 08. But that backfired on them.

BTW...." more than 2 black people at any gathering of the Tea Party of a crowd of 200 is statistically more than should be there."???

Yep. Answer me this:

1. How many black Republicans and Democrats voted against Obama?
2. What portion of the population does this represent percentage wise?
3. How many white Republicans and Democrats voted against Obama?
4. What portion of the population does this represent percentage wise?
5. How many whites would you expect to see at an anti-Obama rally of 1000 people based upon those numbers?
6. How many blacks would you expect to see at an anti-Obama rally of 1000 people based upon those numbers?

Are you saying that Blacks aren't welcome? We all knew that.

As stated above, the number of black people showing up is a statistical anamoly to begin with. The fact that more than should be there alone is testiment to the fact more racial tolerance than you are willing to admit actually exists. No one is excluded from joing the Tea Party any more than they are from joining the Left Wing. or Democratic Party. Do you have a membership card to your party? Did it come in a New Members Kit? Are you denying there are voters registered as Democrats who are racist? Or do you believe the New Black Panther Party are Republicans in disguise?

We don't get to pick and choose who affiliates themselves as supporters any more than you do. We suffered for a long time and still do from no real central figure as a representative of the true grassroots T.E.A. Party's (literally 1000's) across America. Most of these local chapters do NOT acknowledge any of the 3 National Tea Party's as anything other than Teapublican shills.

AZPADDY...#3.16

Could it be that the Tea Party isn't all that thrilled about promoting Herman Cain??

I don't know. I was just answering MOUNTAINMIKES statement in #3.9

Suspiciously

The MSM has paid attention to Cain. As much as the others, whose names escape me.

Personally, I think his biggest handicap is his name: Cain. Too close McCain.

He doesn't stand a chance.

AZPADDY...3.20

That may be, but his message is good and people are listening. I don't agree with your reasoning...

Personally, I think his biggest handicap is his name: Cain. Too close McCain

McCain has got to go along with all the other politicians that have served too long. But all people have to do is look and listen to tell the difference.

MSM reports polls that don't even list Herman Cain, but do report on many candidates who are not even running! What is that all about? I wonder...

Suspicously #3.21

"What is that all about? I wonder..."

Oh....don't play coy, suspicious.......what do you think it's all about?

racism in the Tea Party is something its adherents continue to deny.

So true. They have done a pretty good job of hiding in plain sight for people who would say they aren't racist.

they 'prettied it up' now they say 'they are different than us'. like that's going to fool anyone.

mstanley2265 wrote:

they 'prettied it up' now they say 'they are different than us'. like that's going to fool anyone.

Yep. Don't forget about their image of diversity... Herman Cain.

Odious.

Good find, DS12

racism in the Tea Party is something its adherents continue to deny.

So what? Using the Left's logical fallacy, ALL Americans are Racist. Tea Party has Racist and bigots in it; so does the Republican Party, and so does the Democratic Party. Therefore if the Tea Party is Racist because some members are, then so are the Republican and Democratic Party's. Since a few members of each party define the party as a whole then we must assume that the few racist in America means ALL Americans are racist.

Posts like this prove how little people know about the Big Bad Doogie Man called the Tea Party...

When you look at the demographics of the makeup of the Tea Party you find that it actually fairly well mirrors that of the U.S. population demographics.

But then the Democrats are masters at the art of deceiving people into believing it's only Republicans and the Tea Party who are the Racist when their own track record proves otherwise.

That article was a very clear recitation of the teabaggers and all they stand for. Thank you, DS.

Nice delusion of history CK. It is a fact that the republicans use to have the backing of blacks when the republican party cared about people that went be the wayside when the "Southern Strategy" was implemented, and the Civil War was fought over states rights to keep slavery. I am surprised that the typical republican mantra "Strom Thurmond is a racist KKK member in the democratic party".

Posts like this prove how little people know about the Big Bad Doogie Man called the Tea Party...

Posts like yours shows how little you know about the TP and just how dumb they think some people are. TP supporters say they aren't racist but it took them awhile to denounce racism. For example Herman Cain's bigotry towards muslims didn't get a comment from the tea party? Why? Could it be because they agree with his bigotry or do they need months to decide if they agree with him or not?

But then the Democrats are masters at the art of deceiving people into believing it's only Republicans and the Tea Party who are the Racist

Really....The republicans/tp are the true masters of deception, denial and patting themselves on the back for having a few black republicans/tp in there mists as a representation for the whole black race. Sorry they may have you fooled I am waiting for them to pull back their new type of sheet.

The guy I can't understand is Eric Cantor. You listen to him and expect him to be a Tea Party Republican. But he's in bed with Wall Street - literally speaking. His wife is an ex Goldman Sachs employee and banker. Eric needs to be impeached out of office. He has been the one man wrecking crew for any compromise to get the debt ceiling vote to pass. He would profit from his "short" investments if he tanks the American economy and we default on our loans.

Okay DS12 copy and paste the parts you feel are historically incorrect and whatever supporting evidence you can find to support your claim.

You posted links that spoke of racist democrats before 1964 primarily while patting the republicans on the back. Yes the republicans overwhlemingly voted for the Civil Rights act but those THOSE republicans are not the republicans we have today by far.

You do remember that MLK rejected the republican presidential candidate Goldwater?

Both parties have swapped postions on race over time and now the republicans are trying to convince black americans today they have cared for them all along...Please no one is that stupid.

#4.15

The evil in their deception is in ignoring this fact and why it is one of the greatest travesties of truth told by subversive reactionaries, The old Lie that "Democrats and Republicans" have alway been "Liberals and Conservatives,” so the truth is that the Right infiltrate one or the other when they loose credibility and the Parties flip over time and back agin.

What would have happened in Wisconsin if the Fake Democrats had won under a Democratic ticket...
The conservatives would have come back in a few years like the little brats that they are crying “see they do it too mommy”... pathetic Orwellian book burners!

"Fascism, which was not afraid to call itself reactionary... does not hesitate to call itself illiberal and anti-liberal. Benito Mussolini

And lets get this straight. There can’t be any Liberal Reactionaries, it would be an oxymoron, Liberals Founded this country and aren’t the ones who resisted negatively from it and still try to subvert it...

re ac tionary |rēˈakSHəˌnerē|adjective(of a person or a set of views) opposing political or social liberalization or reform.noun ( pl. reactionaries )a person who holds such views.

DS12...#4.13

For example Herman Cain's bigotry towards muslims didn't get a comment from the tea party? Why? Could it be because they agree with his bigotry or do they need months to decide if they agree with him or not?

Obviously, Herman Cain is more informed than you are.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/02/08/142590/sharia-states/

"I suspect that the doctrine, that small States alone are fitted to be republics, will be exploded by experience, with some other brilliant fallacies accredited by Montesquieu and other political writers. Perhaps it will be found that to obtain a just republic (and it is to secure our just rights that we resort to government at all) it must be so extensive as that local egoisms may never reach its greater part; that on every particular question a majority may be found in its councils free from particular interests and giving, therefore, a uniform prevalence to the principles of justice. The smaller the societies, the more violent and more convulsive their schisms." --Thomas Jefferson to Francois d'Ivernois, 1795.

Small Governments are always tyranical and despotic... always. Because they don't represent a majority of the people, they can't. So they resort to force and intimidation, like now, the GOP extortion tactics.

Suspiciously didnt he apologize after he met with them? Well with the link you provided thanks they agree with his bigotry.

Suspiciously

Obviously you believe anything you are told by your right wing friends.

If Fox Noise says it, it must be true. After all, they are the only unbiased news organization.

I'm sorry DS12, I'm still waiting for your proof. Prove to me that the Republicans lost the Black vote due to Racism instead of entitlement promises made by Democrats.

Prove to me that the Republicans lost the Black vote due to Racism instead of entitlement promises made by Democrats.

Lousy statement,Citizen Kane.

Hi YELLOWDOG D., I'm just asking that DS12 refute the linked article which makes that assertion that it was promised entitlements that brought the Black vote over to the Democratic Party in spite of their racism in the years between the Civil War and the 70's. He implied that Republicans are Racist and the onus is on him to prove it.

My personal view is that there are Racist @!$%#s in every Political Party and I do not judge them based upon whether or not there are-or all would be judged as Racist-which is exactly what he is trying to do with the Tea Party.

Okay Citizen Kane why don't you refute the link provided in #4 it has an excellent article about racism in the Tp?

As for your links you do not want to admit that the racism that was in the democrat party left and reformed into the Republican party in the 70's. Did all of them leave...NO...but your link implies that none of them have been or ever was in the Republican party.

linked article which makes that assertion that it was promised entitlements that brought the Black vote over to the Democratic Party

That is an assertion from a republican point of view. Can you disprove that is was not because when MLK was imprisoned in Alabama his father appealed to him to intervene...which he did....MLK sr promised to deliver the black vote not the entitlements that republicans so lovingly like to portray.

Citizen, my opinion is since liberals marched with civil rights protest marches and liberals are mostly Democrats, word kind of spread.

Because I'm not denying there are racist elements in the Tea Party for one. You are the one painting the Tea Party Movement as racially motivated and cite as proof the lack of black supporters. Where are your statistics proving it? I could show the math to support my position of the few you do see as being more than should logically be there as well as the statistics supporting it, but I don't feel I should have to prove the innocence until presented with evidence of guilt showing it is predominately a racist movement. That whole presumption of innocence thing you know...

As far as MLK goes, I'm unfamiliar with the story you are relating. Please provide the link for the information.

YELLOWDOG D.,I understand and agree with your reasoning to a point but keep in mind that the Democratic Party is the current home of Liberals but in the days prior to the Civil Rights movement, their home was in the Republican Party. If it were a case of them following the Liberals, wouldn't the blacks have switched to the Democratic Party sooner? Doubtful since the obvious racism of the Democratic Party more than let them know they weren't welcome. This actually strengthens the argument that the blacks switched to the Democratic Party due to the lure of promised entitlements. Especially when you consider that the switch took place so soon on the heels of the violence of the Civil Rights movement perpetrated by Democrats was still such a recent memory.

Citizen, could it that black folks have dreams and aspirations? Could it be they are intelligent and decide that the best way for their children to have an equal chance in life is to align with the Democratic Party? That is the way I see it. do You?

The Republican Party, the Party of Lincoln, generally was the political home of African Americans until the 1964 Presidential election and the nomination of the anti-desegregation candidate Barry Goldwater. Most African Americans who could vote cast their ballots for the Republican candidate until 1960, when a majority for the first time voted for the Democrat, John F. Kennedy, who had made a phone-call to Martin Luther King, Sr.'s son M.L. when he was in jail. Senior actually broke with his habit of endorsing Republicans -- he had already given his stamp of approval to the 1960 Republican nominee, Richard Nixon -- and gave his nod to JFK after the phone-call.)

http://knol.google.com/k/daddy-king-martin-luther-king-sr#

Citizen Kane we will have to agree to disagree on the TP my position is when the TP first started IMO their purpose was worthy but their waiting to denounce the small no probably very small racist element took to long for me but when it was by the TP it then became a regular message because that would dominate their message and not what they say they are about.

The passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which was widely opposed by white Southerners, was the event that finally moved the majority of Southerners to the Republican Party on a national level

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Democrats#The_New_Deal_and_After

Cit. Kane

The idea that the existence of any racism in the Democratic party obsolves overt racism in the Tea Party and/or G.O.P. is the age old tactic of track covering.

It is well established that racism and prejudice is an indelible part of today's conservativism. I can't blame you for hating that. I would too if I were you, but the record speaks for itself.

I can agree to disagree but please keep in mind that as a grassroots movement we didn't have any spokespeople to counter the claims of racism or to denounce the racist in our midst. To This Day, we do NOT have an accord on who is the Leader although there are many who claim to be. Funny thing about these Teapublicans-you don't want them and niether do the majority of those in the Tea Party. They got elected by co-opting the name and suckering voters into believing they would be different from a run-of-the-mill Republican. Well, here is there chance to put up or shut up-and ALL of us are watching. I have to hand it to them though, they have managed to get this debt ceiling thing to include talk of a balanced budget amendment and got cuts to government debt and no raising of anyones taxes-exactly what the Tea Party has asked for all along. It's what got them elected and they are doing what they said. Now if only we could get the Democrats and the rest of the Republicans to hold up their promises we wouldn't be in this mess...

AZPADDY, I'm not trying to "obsolve" any racism on anyones part, including the Democrats. But I will say this, I would rather the Racist wore pointy sheets than shake my hand while smiling. That is their opinion and this is still America where people are still free to practice racism and religious persecution as long as it doesn't lead to violence or break any laws that is. And honestly, I PREFER for the Racist to be up-front and out in the open about their racism so I know who they are instead of the cowards hiding their racism under the sheets while pointing at the "other" sides Racist members.

America where people are still free to practice racism and religious persecution as long as it doesn't lead to violence or break any laws that is.

What kind of person thinks like that who can say such a thing?

"Is it the less dishonest to do what is wrong, because not expressly prohibited by written law? Let us hope our moral principles are not yet in that stage of degeneracy." --Thomas Jefferson to John Wayles Eppes, 1813.

You mean besides Aethist denigrating the Christians, Christians attacking Muslims, or the Liberals denouncing Conservatives, or the Democrats castigating the Tea Party, or the Panthers protesting the Klan, and vice versa ad infinium ?

Yeah, no one we know...

I should have known you would be incapable of comprehending what that quote means. Criticism is not what that quote is referring to at all.

Your answer is a simplistic rationalization to excuse your tolerance for inequality. It’s not a hypocrisy of tolerance to discourage this way of thinking in a free society, it would be not to...

You won’t understand that either... So I refer you back to "Let us hope our moral principles are not yet in that stage of degeneracy."

Cit. Kane

Preferring the intolerant and prejudiced to openly practice their crafts as long as no physical violence is suffered, or no laws are broken is giving the intolerant and prejudiced license and encouragment to practice their hatred.

At what point do shouted racial epithets become assualt? A block away? Ten feet? 1 foot?

What would be your reaction if David Duke were to deliver the keynote address at the next Republican convention?

As for your comment in #4.29 that "blacks switched to the Democratic Party due to the lure of promised entitlements.":

That has to be one of the more patently racist statements I've read on Newsvine, even though it was "up front, and out in the open", and "No laws were broken". My guess is if you were to repeat that in public, it could even lead to physical violence.

Prejudice: "A vagrant opinion with no visible means of support." (Ambrose Beirce. 1842 - 1914?)

It’s certainly true that the internet provides far more anonymity then any white hood riding in the dead of night ever provided. People say the most ignorantly hateful things here that they would never have the courage to say out loud in public.

right up until they get banned by Tyler or Sally LOL

The CoH shields them more then punishes them. The more clever ones know how to word things, how to work the system, innuendo and purposeful ambiguity in language, or just feigning ignorance are just some of their tools of choice. Just as they hide behind freedom of speach to promote hate and division in America.

You mean besides Aethist denigrating the Christians, Christians attacking Muslims, or the Liberals denouncing Conservatives, or the Democrats castigating the Tea Party, or the Panthers protesting the Klan, and vice versa ad infinium ?

Yeah, no one we know...

Your words would seem like reason if not for the fact you're trying to couch a lousy counter in friendly terms.

Remember when Fox News (more than once) painted "Liberals" as craven cowards often playing the victim card? I haven't seen for myself too many examples of that, but I have seen many examples of Conservatives playing the victim card... *cough cough*

Daniel A. Hallo

The CoH may seem to shield those who prefer their prejudice be up front and out in the open, but I believe it's allowed to stand only because Tyler and Sally can't be everywhere at once. Individuals who allow racially offensive comments to remain on articles they write or seed are actually revealing their own ignorance.

While the more creative may get away with barely veiled racially charged comments, their hatred and ignorance "shines through" to coin a phrase.

Personally, I try to combat the more obvious ones, but like Tyler and Sally, you can't be everywhere at once. Most of the haters don't stay long, but we know who they are by their comments anyway.

They might as well be wearing white pointed hoods.

Intellectually I know you're right AZ, but I have little to no temper for racism or any form of institutionalized ignorance and I do loose it sometimes. I was attacked by some Hicks and beaten for standing up for equal rights in Florida in the 60’s. Not much I can do here but It’s a button I have you don’t want to push on me in person. Being raised in the South, I have been made a victim of racism from both Whites and Blacks.

Daniel, I have been enjoying your posts like fresh air. You engage with the most obstreperous of people with sangfroid.

You also add much content to the discussion and obviate altercations.

Kudos

Daniel A. Hallo

Sorry to hear you were attacked in the 60's. Amazing the same attacks (verbally, anyway) take place today. I'm very dissapointed in the general Newsvine allowance of letting the more racially charged comments to stand. The most offensive posts occur on the MSNBC articles, where Tyler and Sally apparently seldom travel.

It just degrades an otherwise great site for open discussion.

AZ,

Firstly, let me say that I agree with your post 4.47.

Secondly, I was just on another thread and learned something that I did not know. It only takes a 'handful' of people on a thread that view a comment as inflammatory before the comment is collapsed by the community (you have to push the ! button and flag it).

So, as in our responsibility of stewardship in regard to our Government, we as a Newsvine Community have a responsibility to guard against vituperation toward any other viner. I hate it when people attack other viners, most especially new ones. I have stepped in several times to defend or extenuate between viners and remind them of the COH.

Regards

I re-read my post and tried to add something before it timed out, but was unsuccessful.

I do not view myself as a pargaon of virtue, but I am not so craven as to hide behind the anonymity of this medium to insult or allow others to be insulted. It gives me no great pleasure to dress down a racist or any other type of attack. I just think of NV as walking out my front door and speaking to people face to face and all the social graces and intestinal fortitude that goes along with that.

Yup, as usual when you can't gather the facts to bolster your stance you can always label the other side as Racist. And you wonder why the Race Card is losing its edge. THAT is why people who are closet racist temselves love to use it at a drop of the hat in order to bolster the "Boy who cried Wolf" effect. You are playing right into their hands people...

Sorry but when the Race Card is being thrown down so willy-nilly I know that any hope of meaningful discussion is gone since once someone starts calling you names-the fight is over and you've already won.

No sense in kicking a man when he's down...

Buh Bye!!

Cit. Kane

Positions with merit are usually defended, regardless of how little merit exists.

I'm sorry, but when you post an opinion like yours from #4.29 - Blacks are attracted to the Democratic party because of welfare programs - you shouldn't be surprised if you're taken to task for it. In fact, in my opinion, that type of comment should be grounds for being banned.

That, Citiizen Kane, is one of the most offensive comments I've ever read on Newsvine.

AZ,

Agreed and marked as such.

but when you post an opinion like yours from #4.29 - Blacks are attracted to the Democratic party because of welfare programs

My opinion? Says who? I actually don't have an opinion on the matter but am trying to form one as you can see by this post that followed:

If it were a case of them following the Liberals, wouldn't the blacks have switched to the Democratic Party sooner? Doubtful since the obvious racism of the Democratic Party more than let them know they weren't welcome. This actually strengthens the argument that the blacks switched to the Democratic Party due to the lure of promised entitlements. Especially when you consider that the switch took place so soon on the heels of the violence of the Civil Rights movement perpetrated by Democrats was still such a recent memory.

This was based upon the information contained in that link (to make it easier for everyone, here it is again) I had provided earlier which I asked to be refuted a few different times without any evidence being presented. Eventually a second view was presented that showed that Barry Goldwater, a segregationist, had gotten the Republican nod for running for President. So I read about it and figured, "Okay, that does explain a lot." It also should explain why I dropped the subject. I got smarter here! Imagine that. In the mean time I have stated that Racist views out in the open are preferable to me because they are easily ignored or otherwise dealt with versus someone who is Racist working behind the scenes and blocking advancement surreptitiously. Somehow that doesn't seem to sit well with you. If your preference is to be stabbed in the back while smiled at in your face, please forgive me if I chose another preference.

Now I've wasted more than enough time explaining myself when there shouldn't even be a question if it weren't for the below-the-belt tactic of throwing the Race Card out there. Fortunately though, I just consider the source and move on usually. The only difference on this occasion is that the person attempting to drag my name through the mud is a familiar foe and this time-I'm calling you out for your tactics!

Cit Kane,

You must agree that you and I are not "foes". I see you on threads from time to time and cannot remember being in opposition to you.

I will state, without knowing your 'history' or who this foe is, just in casual perusal of your posts you did say "This actually strengthens the argument that the blacks switched to the Democratic Party due to the lure of promised entitlements." And THAT I believe is the object of contention. If you are saying that this is a quote from the article, in the short time I spent on that supplied link I did not find that, nor did you use quotation marks.

Personally, I disagree with the implied pertinence to the current Democratic or Republican/Tea Party. These two parties have changed much over the decades and the Republicans of today are no more the party of Lincoln than the Democrats are the party of Andrew Jackson.

Regards

Cit. Kane

You're making a very simple issue complicated. Here it is in its most basic form:

Your comment #4.29: "This actually strengthens the argument that the blacks switched to the Democratic Party due to the lure of promised entitlements."

You're claiming that blacks preferred the Democratic party because of welfare programs - or "entitlements" as you put it. Somehow, I don't think you were referring to Social Security.

I then pointed out what a racist view that was, and in my oinion, should result in being banned.

You just don't seem to get it: You put forth the view that black Americans vote Democratic because Democratic lawmakers were in favor of welfare programs - as if black Americans prefer collecting welfare instead of working.

There can be no other explanation for such a statement, and in fact, you haven't offered one.

Leave if you want, but I'm willing to listen to whatever explanation (or apology) you might have for that statement.

Cit. Kane

BTW.....I searched for the link you've been citing (that blacks prefer the Democratic party due to entitlement programs), and could only find it in the link you provided in #4.53, and even then, it's from a conservative extremist web site. That article plays very fast and loose with the facts regarding the civil rights movement, and how civil rights legislation came to be.

Where was the link you refer to in your #4.23 comment? I could not find it, except much later in your #4.53 comment.

Ok Cit. Kane.....OK.

I finally found the link you had asked DS12 to refute, and....it's from you in #4.11!!

You put forth the idea in a link that blacks joined the Democratic party due to welfare, then try to disclaim any responsibility for it??

I'm mad at myself for wasting time looking for the link.

Barbara in Houston, there are no quotes because that was my personal interpretation of the facts presented to me at the time by the website and my personal knowledge of history where the Democratcs rallied to block desegreagation and the resulting violence commited upon our fellow Americans who supported desgregation. Many gave their lives in the fight for equal rights. I don't know if I could have switched my allegience to the party that sponsored the murder of my brothers, fathers, sisters, and daughters after so short a time. Hence my disbelief that it was simply being tired of being Republicans or that it was because the Republicans had become a haven for Racism-that is until I found out about Goldwater's stance on desgregation -at which gtime I modified my stance.

AZPADDY, do you deny that politicians buy support from voters by promising them something in return? The black people of America were very poor and struggling while their white counter parts were living the Life of Riley in comparison. To this day, the disparity in income still makes headlines! This is not a racist assumption as I am sure this is what has led many a poor white family to vote for the Democrats' Liberal agenda. I know this was the case in the homes I grew up in so in reality, it is more than an assumption as I have seen it with my own eyes. The poor will always (for the most part) vote for the Party which will do the most to help their situation. No more nor less than the Rich will vote for the Party which will do the most to improve their situation (like they need any improvements).

Now exactly how is that logical conclusion racist?

Cit. Kane

I'm just old enough to recall politics in the tumultuous mid 1960's and I don't recall any politicians running on a platform of pro-wefare programs. I don't recall any billboards, advertisements or newspaper ads targeting the black community with promises of welfare programs. Civil rights legislation came about through politicians already in office recognizing the need.

Stop the B.S. Just stop it.

I remember the 60's well.

It was when the Klan was at the end of have their little hanging parties, though they still happened, and they'd show up outside of my school handing out Toe Tags for Blacks.

I've never met a Klan member or a Skinhead neo-neanderthal who wasn't a whimpering coward when you confronted them alone. Every single one of them displays some symptoms of mild to severe ASPD, or are full blown sociopaths.

Empathy is not a code word. Some people are simply born with emotional colorblindness more degrading than the most hideous of bodily deformities.

I, too, remember the 1960s. I remember the activism when people, mostly young, took to the streets because they felt that the Government was not working for them and making BAD decisions.

I feel the same way today. All this crap about the debt ceiling "debacle" fostered by the Republican/Teaparty and their corporate overlords, and those already so rich that they hide their money in off-shore accounts!

Rolling back of safety-net programs for the poor and the infirm, racism and bigotry of ALL types rearing it's shameful and ugly head, the holding of America hostage FOR WHAT?????? So Fat Cats can pay less in taxes than a working person??? So Corporations can get subsidized (WELFARE) but a single mom or an elderly person has to cut back???? It is time to STOP!!!

So here is something else I remember from the 60s. It is a song by Buffalo Springfield and expresses MY EXACT FEELINGS about the crap the mighty-whitey-righties are shoving down our throats. Read the words, heed the words. As for me, I am going to plan a sit in at my Senator's Houston office. I will chain my wheelchair to his door if I must, but DAMMIT! he WILL listen!

________________________________________________

There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware

I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind

I think it's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

What a field-day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side

It's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

We better stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, now, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

Barbara

What a classic protest song. Looking back, the hippies (I was too young then) were right. Travel to Viet Nam now, and they're glad to see us. Beautiful people in their own country.

That's all they ever wanted anyway, but we wouldn't listen. We brought them misery and death.

Thanks Barbara

Now I will not get that song out of my head:) Good tune written before its time and relevant today.

tonybeeerm...4.22

I love the stupid assumptions you and others make! This information was widely published by many newspapers, which is where I read it. Read for yourself:

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/4342-states-take-preemptive-strike-against-shariah

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-12-09-shariaban09_ST_N.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Media/oklahoma-pass-laws-prohibiting-islamic-sharia-laws-apply/story?id=10908521

http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2011/02/sharia_law_ban_proposed_in_tennessee.html

"Dewey Defeats Truman"

Dean #5 If not for them the debt ceiling would have been raised and government would be on another runaway spending spree.

Let me explain it to you Dean. If not for them the debt ceiling would have been raised and the Dow would not be 500 points down in the past week and heading lower. If not for them we would be able to borrow the money to pay off the debts we have already incurred. If not for them retired people on Social Security (which they have paid into) would not be wondering if they could pay their bills next month. I do not begrudge the tea baggers their desire to control spending but this is a very, very dangerous way to do it.

#5.1 Tyler D, great comback dude. vote up with gusto and a great big laugh today. Thank you much!

I'm with you Dean the tea party has been the one ray of hope.

The Beacon of Light is the Constitution and the Statue of Liberty...not Ayn Rand and her pathetic books

I haven't read any Ayn Rand but I've read plenty of Noam Chomsky. That beacon of light is getting pretty dim these days.

I read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand, many years ago. I had a completely different take on what I read. It was given to me and in that respect it was about leaving abusive relationships with domineering, humiliating, dangerous and oppressive partners. If memory serves, the current hostage takers are the last people on this earth who should be touting Ayn Rand with her fictional abusive characters as role models.

I haven't read any Ayn Rand but I've read plenty of Noam Chomsky.

Which puts you far far left, farther left than the Tea party is right. hmmmm

Amen Mike!

You can have the budget debates AFTER raising the debt ceiling to pay for what we've ALREADY done...then work out the budget.

They are terrifying the elderly, worrying the families of the troops, and could raise all of our interest rates. These are hostage takers, not morally upstanding Americans. They are interested ONLY in their own radical agenda, not in what's best for the country. Truly pathetic human beings.

The *ahem* leadership of the republican party whipped their radicals into a frenzy instead of setting a responsible tone...and now those radicals are eating them alive.

So Dean, it's "DAMNED THE TORPEDOES, FULL SPEED AHEAD" is that it? I think most Americans realize thiss mess we're in didn't happen over night. This mess is 30+ years in the making and we expect we won't get out over night. Aafter Bush, don't you think we ought to be a LITTLE more cautious when making BIG decisions concerning our ailing Country. That is if you really care about America. We can't afford to play to the Tea-hod-ist. naive ideas about how to run a Country. I believe most Americans can see them for what they are and who they represent.

We still don't know for sure if we are going to default on our loans. If that happens, the Teapublicans are going to be specifically blamed - as they should be.

This is really a non partisan point of view. The vote on raising the debt ceiling is all about paying our existing debts. That's the only ethical thing to do. If you want a broader discussion about spending cuts and taxes, especially with proposals that could destroy Social Security and Medicare for millions of Americans, that discussions needs to take place during a regular session of congress.

Holding the debt ceiling hostage has been an asinine stunt. I think from all I have seen from Teapublicans since the 2010 elections, from holding the debt ceiling vote being held hostage to the state level and laying off police, fire and school personnel, plus trying to shut down unions they have cooked their own goose.

Yes that works really well in my house to-paying off one credit card with another...

Darkdonnie gets the "states the obvious" award.

MKikeBravo...#5.2

Let me explain it to you Dean. If not for them the debt ceiling would have been raised and the Dow would not be 500 points down in the past week and heading lower. If not for them we would be able to borrow the money to pay off the debts we have already incurred. If not for them retired people on Social Security (which they have paid into) would not be wondering if they could pay their bills next month.

Oh m G_d Mike! Is this all that you think our problems in this country is all about? Have you asked yourself why there is only I.O.U.'s in the Social Security Account? Have you asked yourself what caused this crisis? Have you asked yourself how in the h_ll we are going to stop it? Have you asked yourself who is going to own us if we don't stop it now? Have you asked yourself what is the truth about why we can't get the economy off the ground?

I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point.

yep Dressed up Libertarian philosophy has been around ever since Ayn Rand, A Russian Emigre. As if the United States of America needed a Russian, born and raised, to 'enlighten' Americans...LOL

Termites can always be found in the woodwork but voters will be the Terminex of freedom. Look for the spraying to start soon.

It aint so,

The so called Tea Party (which is defined in #3.4) will go the way of the Whigs.

Something so disorganized, no matter how much money Rove and the Brothers Koch pour into it, will fade back into the mire from where it came.

It is indeed unfortunate that while the Baggers are still around to distort and distract, a real grass roots group, that could actually accomplish something, would be politically occluded at this time.

I think they will be around for a long long time. They are still in their infancy.

The cure for ignorance is education.... Eventually even the most backwards of thinking is exposed to the light of truth to where that backwards thinking evaporates.

The same is true of the Baggies. Eventually they will dissapate as they will come to understand that there is more to this country than the single issues they bond together under. Once more and more move beyond their singular issues of God, guns, gay-bashing, and abortion, the sooner the stink of the baggies will dissipate

ugh they're probably going to 'hang around' like the KKK has ...sighhhhh but powerful, they've had their one shot, it won't last because like the KKk learned 'hate' groups aren't tolerated for long in America

Look for the spraying to start soon.

Not when your exalted grand poobah leader is running at a 50% disapproval, 40% approval rate...

Oh, excuse me, it just went to 52% disapproval...too bad, so sad, signed...Vlad.

I never weep over politics, it is all just what you want to make it IAS. What ever happens happens, I'll still live my life to the best of my abilities.

Let's watch the numbers next year when they count.

her to stay. Some of you are hilarious, you clearly have no idead what you are talking about...only what you have been spoon fed. Here is their platform - very straight forward and something that most Americas can agree on.

Eliminate Excessive Taxes

Eliminate the National Debt

Eliminate Deficit Spending

Protect Free Markets

Abide by the Constitution of the United States

Promote Civic Responsibility

Reduce the Overall Size of Government

Believe in the People

Avoid the Pitfalls of Politics

Maintain Local Independence

http://www.teaparty-platform.com/

Gee, those Tea Party people are so RADICAL, sheeze....The tea Party people will continue to get voted in because they couldn't give a rat's rear end if they get reelected or not. They are not stinking corrupt career politicians (shall I name some on both sides of the aisle?) interested in butt kissing, bribes and kickbacks. They're only interest is in bringing fiscal sanity back to America.

Here is the platform...maybe you will understand why 2/3 of Americans agree with them that spending is out of control and we need to gut, cap, and balance. We are 14 trillion dollars in debt...it's about time we confronted the problem head on and that's what they intend to do, because if we don't, we will look like Greece and Portugal in about 5 years or less.

The real tea party platform

http://www.examiner.com/international-affairs-in-los-angeles/tea-party-gop-radical-terrorist-racist-or-just-plain-mean

http://www.silive.com/opinion/columns/index.ssf/2010/07/tea_party_radical_false_populi.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/31/tea-party-sarah-palin-andrew-neil

http://archive.truthout.org/ej-dionne-jr-the-tea-party%E2%80%99s-radicalism56813

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI

http://www.economist.com/blogs/lexington/2010/07/tea-party_racism

http://www.politicolnews.com/tea-party-racism/

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/31/opinion/sunday/dowd-tempest-in-a-tea-party.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1nv0nZNpJ8&feature=youtu.be

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=367x30721

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/republican-party/tea-party-movement-is-politically-mainstream-not-so-much/

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/03/20/87743/code-red-gun/

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/04/16/after-the-tea-party-more-extremism-as-gun-rights-activists-hit/

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1903/tea-party-movement-religion-social-issues-conservative-christian

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700119610/The-intersection-of-tea-party-and-religion.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/oct/12/tea-party-religious-right

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=205442

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=18677

http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/massey-energy-don-blankenship-million-dolla

http://www.examiner.com/progressive-in-tampa-bay/tea-party-anger-boils-over-into-threats-and-violence-democrats-the-target-part-1-the-causes

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/jan2011/ariz-j14.shtml

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/07/12/the-tea-party-lies/

http://ssdiclaims.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/101/

http://www.observer.com/2010/opinion/lies-tea-party

http://www.teaparty-platform.com/

Vol Fan very diverse group of quotes from individuals that happen to look just like most tea-party members/sarcasm

They're only interest is in bringing fiscal sanity back to America.

LOL if gutting, crapping, and killing america is sanity.

check out the link in #4 as well Vol Fan and Don Overton

GUTTING the life blood of this country, defunding our seniors and disabled, our clean air, water, safe skies for traveling, over GUTTING corporate tax breaks and credits>?????? Revenues increased back to Clinton era rates when we ran annual surpluses are favored over oil company tax credits being eliminated is NOT favored by a majority of ALL Americans?????

You are forgetting who funded the Tea Party and WHO are the middle class today.

sorry, I meant cutting...not gutting. That said, I could put up tons of links from everybody and their brother about about the Dems....and the Pubs...that is not the point. Those are the stated points of the Tea Party platform, do you dispute them? Is that not what the Tea Party members are doing in Congress right now, standing on those principles?

Do you dispute that 2/3 of Americans according to CNN approve the cut, cap and balance approach? The link is right there, help yourself...

NiteOwlett, Clinton didn't have surpluses anymore than Bush:

Considering the government's fiscal year ends on the last day of September each year, and considering Clinton's budget proposal in 1993 took effect in October 1993 and concluded September 1994 (FY1994), here's the national debt at the end of each year of Clinton Budgets

see chart here. Verified here.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

They say roaches are gonna be around forever too. I see your point IAS.

Vol fan, you are entitled to you own opinion but not you own facts. I will not dig out proof for you I suspect you already know the truth but you like so many of you guys don't like REAL history so you make up your own. Got it.

and when the consequences come down from all this angst of the Republican/Tea Party/Libertarians, they Will Share in The Consequences........can't be protected with theories when the Real Time World comes knocking...

Nice reading on the CNN poll Vol Fan.....How come you didnt mention that over 70% favor raising takes for those making over 250K, corporate jets, and ending oil subsidies (ie entitlements).

Also in the poll the argument could be made that 2/3 of Americans think the republicans(which i am assuming includes the tea party) aren't acting responsible.

So is acting on their holier than thou principle without compromise worth sending the world into a depression??

#6.9 and #6.10 this form of debate, by pulling in quotes reminds me of a party where people cite jokes, so much so that the familiar jokes need no longer be said. As this party get together over time, the partiers only needed to cite a number, say, joke number 4, and the rest laugh, scream, and another says, here, but what about number 13, followed by more laughs and scream hilarious.
debate by all means number, say 9 and 10, echo the hilarious laughter and screams.
BTW, where can you find in the Constitution the socialist mission ? Or protecting the rich by giving them tax breaks and subsidies ?
I maintain that government exists for the people's sound mind, sound body and sound environment under the big obligatory umbrella of Welfare. Go by these principles Government has to be the socialist Robin Hood or the liberal Jesus, whenever necessary.

I can't help but wonder how many of you viners on this seed are truly Socialists/Marxists/Communists, with your own agenda?

And how many of you viners on this seed just never listen to the opposite side of the argument.
How many of you think that Socialism is the way of the future for our Republic?
How many of you know what is being taught in your children's school and University?
How many of you are truly concerned for the survival of the American Dream?

There's hardly anyone who wants actual, comprehensive socialism, merely the benefits of its limited practice, as many, many countries have seen already. Universal health care and advanced education has taken any number of countries in Europe to becoming more desirable to live in than the United States, down from being bombed out shells after WWII.

Don Overton

The real tea party platform

Thanks for posting those links. It's important to remember what was and unfortunately what is. A few are already in power in both the national and state governments. Their multi-tiered agenda is already being put into place.

I for one maintain a very long term memory and see a non existent America coming. In its place, a regressive, hyper corporatist, hyper nationalist, theocratic state if these people gain total power.

Statistics about ANNUAL BUDGETS when including or not including the cost of WARS, does not equate to a valid argument. Clinton claims to have balanced a CURRENT ANNUAL BUDGET not including the national debt. Bush NEVER balanced a CURRENT ANNUAL BUDGET. Prove me wrong, anyone.

I guess your not part of that audience.

No, we're not sheep. We would rather build than destroy.

Were they not sheep that followed the destrutive ideologies of Jim Jones, Adoph Hiterler, and Charles Manson?

In order for sheep to go anywhere, they need a controlling dog to push them. The sheep analogy is ignorant of the facts of farming but some alway use it like a pushy dog.

BAAAAAAA-d analogy. hehehehhehhe

I didn't want to get suspended for calling what I really think they are so sheep had to do. Also trying to keep my blood pressure under control, and the vine constantly tests those limits.

I know...Mike...the typical slamfest and some don't even know what they are talking about.

Well SOMEBODY doesn't know what they are talking about that's for danged sure.

Mike...#8

I knew too when I joined this discussion...sorry, it's not really a discussion. You have to be well read to take part in a discussion. But listening to our Politicians on MSM (Main Stream Media) talk, they address us as if we are all Sheep. Too ill informed to know that they are manipulating, outright lying and purposely panicking the American Public.

It is time to replace them! Democrats and Republican's that have served over 12 years. The are the ones to blame for our being in this mess! NO, THAT'S WRONG! WE ARE THE ONES TO BLAME FOR BEING IN THIS MESS! Now it's time to get it fixed. We don't do that with CLOSED MINDS!

Suspiciously

You're giving MSM far too much credit. They are simply a product of our Free Enterprise System.

All that "MSM" stuff is profit driven corporation approved copy. That means no liberalism allowed.

AZPADDY...#8.8

Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha!!! Thanks for the biggest and best laugh I've had in a long time!

Suspiciously,

I find few people on this thread that would not measure up to your laudable "well read" status.

Except of course, for those who venerate ignorance and disparage education. I seldom make a statement of generalities, however, I would allow that from what I have seen from the so called "TeaParty", it is quite ignorant. Ignorant of History, ignorant of Economics, ignorant of higher concepts such as Noblese Oblige, ignorant of the folly of destroying the environment, ignorant of the obligation of social responsibility and I could go on ad infinitum but I think you get the point. Smart=Good, Dumb=Bad.

Regards

Intentionally or not, you just slammed me. I am a memeber of the Tea Party and have often questioned why we, the richest nation in the world, can't provide shelter for the homeless, feed the hungry, or supply Universal Healthcare. I've also called into question Cap and Trade since this provides a monetary way for corporations to pay to pollute the enviornment. I admit to being only a little above average on American History-never claimed to be a Historian, but I don't understand how that makes me "dumb". Can You wire a house? Can you rebuild an internal combustion engine? Can you set up an exhibit at a tradeshow? Can you audit a cutomers bill? Can you design an exhibit? Can you build a tradeshow exhibit from scratch? Can you build a house from the foundation up? Can you design one? Can you repair a computer? A TV? A VCR? Can you manage a nightclub successfully? How about a dlei/grocery store? Program a register?

Does failure to be able to do what I can do make you dumb?

I can't grow a crop but I can drive a tractor. We all have our specialties. This life is a Co-op whether we like to admit it or not. The TEA Party has brought a serious discussion to the table-an ever increasingly under-funded government that wants to control what you do in your bedroom, in your home, in your life!, to the table. While you may or may not agree with their stated goals in general, there have to be some parts of their agenda you DO agree with. Instead of denigrating everyone who is associated with them as DUMB, how about working against the parts you disagree with and supporting the aims you find admirable-like transparency in government and an end to corruption if nothing else?

P.S. I have over a hundred books on my bookshelf and only about three are unread. That 100 books are what I've been unable to pass on so far this year. All of them are fiction because I already know how much reality sucks (big time for me) so I do not enjoy reading about it; but choose to escape it momentarily.

Does this make me less well read?

Citizen Kane...8.11

Does this make me less well read?

No Citizen Kane...it makes you one of the few more balanced people on this seed. Unlike Barbara. Poor Dear.

Barbara in Houston...#8.10 It is time for me to put you on my "ignore list" and stop wasting time answering you. Your acusations are so vile and innacurate, based only on your deep feelings of hatred that it isn't worth my time. Have a Happy Life!

Suspiciously

Just can't stand the truth can you.

Cit Kane,

Generalities are just that, and they do have exceptions. If you feel that your inclusion in the so called Tea Party is advancing your agenda, I might suggest a closer look at, not your values, but what is being done in the NAME of your 'party'. The TP does not want to shelter the homeless, which I gather is one of your values, they want to prevent the government from doing just that.

They do not venerate Education, they wish to privatize education so that only the rich who can afford private schools, HAVE education.

They do not value the environment. Do you have kids? If you do or hope to, are you not concerned about the quality of the water they drink, the air they breathe and the food they eat?

These are NOT goals of the TP, on the contrary, the TP, which is Corporately Funded, want to take us back decades to a time when there were only two classes. The Rich and the dirt poor.

I applaud your recognition that the government is broken, I would just ask you to examine how much more broken it will be by a 'party' willing to drive the economy off a cliff for a mixed sh#t-pot of subverted ideology. Find a better 'party' or start your own grass roots movement. Nothing is stopping you.

In closing I sense that you felt insulted by the "well read" comment. I would refer you back to #8.7 where Suspiciously said that most of the people on this thread were not well read (I paraphrase here). My reply to him was that by inferring others were not as "well read" as he, he showed true ignorance.

Being a member of a 'party' does not make you ignorant, it just makes you different. Not questioning the actions of said parties and blindly following ANY idology, might make you ignorant.

I will not parade my CV nor my continuing self-education to any one to prove myself,nor should you, for if the character and quality of the dialogue does not speak to that, nothing will.

Fellow Viners: I have just been "ignored" by Suspiciously. I feel like a breath of fresh air.

Barbara in Houston, I think you are confusing TeaPublicans with T.E.A. Party. Each true T.E.A. Party group has their own beliefs and agendas. The so-called "National Groups" represent us as much as Nike represents Prada. Being they are the noisy buffoons with money, they are getting the spotlight and making the real grassroot T.E.A. Party's look stupid-which is far from true. This is why we (grassroot members) get upset when people get us confused.

Just as you have decided to align yourself with whatever political party most represents your desires, so have I. Neither of us embrace 100% of what the overall platform is, but we try to get as close as we can just to get some kind of a voice in politics. Quite truthfully, the core tenets that you will find advance by practically ALL Tea Parties closely match my own desires. What I find amusing is that most them have been advanced by BOTH major political parties at one time or another and now serve as a reason to ridicule people.

What's up with that?

Cit K, Nope not me. I have been a TRUE Indy LOOOOONG before it was "trendy" to be Indy. (now that it is trendy, I wonder what I will do?) Only voted for one Repub Pres. and one Dem Pres., EVER, in my LIFE, they both won.

You seem sincere and honest and advocate your party as if it were worthy of you. Having been to dozens of town halls, rallies and SEEN self-proclaimed Tea Partiers, they "look" nothing like you.

What people say about themselves, on paper, is seldom the case (as in what "we are all about"). Personally, I have never been a 'group joiner', which makes civic activism difficult. ;>)

That is why I do not vote party lines, I vote for the best person, and only after vetting them to the best of my ability. The best person for ALL the jobs will seldom be represented by one single "party". It is why, I believe, John Adams did not want political parties to be introduced into the Electoral Process. History shows that he lost this battle, as well as the next election, to Thomas Jefferson who played the great game quite well.

Good luck to you in your endeavors, as I feel we have mashed this topic as far as we can take it.

Barbara in Houston wrote:

That is why I do not vote party lines, I vote for the best person, and only after vetting them to the best of my ability. The best person for ALL the jobs will seldom be represented by one single "party". It is why, I believe, John Adams did not want political parties to be introduced into the Electoral Process.

!!

What’s with the (!!)? It’s true.

The founders didn’t want Political Parties to form, but knew there would anyway. Washington although he’s called a Federalist, din’t run as one. And Jefferson was a pragmatist though, and he said that no matter what name they use, there will only ever be, two parties.

That’s still true today. (Liberals and Conservatives,} and the only differences are the mixed variations between these two. Both of our parties have flipped from one to the other over time.

"Wherever there are men, there will be parties; and wherever there are free men they will make themselves heard. Those of firm health and spirits are unwilling to cede more of their liberty than is necessary to preserve order; those of feeble constitutions will wish to see one strong arm able to protect them from the many. These are the Whigs and Tories of nature. These mutual jealousies produce mutual security; and while the laws shall be obeyed, all will be safe. He alone is your enemy who disobeys them." --Thomas Jefferson: Misc. Notes, 1801?

"He alone is your enemy who disobeys them.”

aka, the regulation hating Tea Party and ultraconservative Reactionaries.

"The duty of an upright administration is to pursue its course steadily, to know nothing of these family dissensions, and to cherish the good principles of both parties." --Thomas Jefferson to George Logan, 1805.

To the credit of President Barack Obama, I think he tries to do just that.

Yes, Daniel, he tries to be the President that leads us back from a stalled, dysfunctional Congress to one that actually does the business of the people. Too bad he has to fight both Dems and Rep/TP to do this.

Painful, Thanks vote up and for the !!

Very Few, I know, discussed it with them...LOL

Painful,

When they refer to History it is their own revisionist brand of "history".

Thanks Barbara in Houston.

(chuckles) I stand corrected and really have a lot of nerve applying objective logic and facts.

I will believe that when, if ever, it is demonstrated.

Good Luck with that!

;>)

onefan51 wrote:

It is widely known that Michele Bachmann professes to be an expert in America history.

That's remarkable... Thanks. I have credited her more as an "exception" than in expert in American History.

painful, of course government has some responsibilites as outlined in the Constitution, but everything after that is reserved to the STATES...

vol fan in chatt, tn wrote:

painful, of course government has some responsibilites as outlined in the Constitution, but everything after that is reserved to the STATES...

Meaning what precisely? Concerning injury to aliens, international law, environmentmental abuse, air laws, health care reform, laws preventing torture? It is not always cut-and-dry as in the border patrol case in the State of Arizona or Hurricane Katrina.

I am not sure I clearly understand your statement and what it has to do with the topic at hand.

This:

Publicly owned airports, sports arenas or government-funded universities would be considered a few examples of socialist operations.

That's such baloney...of course the federal government is to control some things specifically stated (enumerated powers) in the Constitution. All others are reserved to the states.

Yours is the typical remark by those on the left...what about highways, policeman, etc??...those are not socialist operation. Frankly, you don't even understand the concept of socialisism very well.

Look here's what one of our founding fathers stated:

(The federal government)Being an instrument of limited and enumerated powers, it follows irresistibly that what is not conferred is withheld and belongs to the state authorities….All powers not delegated…and not prohibited are reserved [to the states]

source:

Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States(Boston: Hilliard, Gray, and Company, 1833), Book III, pp. 712-713, Chapter XLIV, § 1009-1010. Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States (Boston: Charles C. Little and James Brown, 1851), Vol. II, pp. 612- 613, §1907-1908

read up on what socialism really is and what the enumerated powers are , it might be helpful to you...

Vol in Tenn, government steps in when democracy fails. I refer you to civil rights, women's rights as examples. The Constitution has been described as "the living document". It is imperfect and was designed to be ammended to an ever changing world for unforeseen events that could not have been imagined when first written. Constantly pointing to the Constitution has "unmoveable, unchangeable" was never the intent. It was a guidline to be followed as the basis of government of this country. It is not a mantra. We have 350000000 people/citizens of this country today. We have the largest gap between rich and poor than has ever existed. We have failings in our infrastructure, our educational system, our healthcare system, our manufacturing base, our foreign policy that could not have been imagined. The Tea Party recognizes none of these situations as being at the core of our problems. It ignores the reality of the world 2011. It believes in us or them not all. That won't work. The Republican party in its singular quest for high office at all costs means that the focus isn't on what is good for the country but what it means to attain that office. It masks itself with rhetoric and denies any implication in our present situation. The Tea Party association means little or no room to deal. No deal, stalemate. When the object of a party is "I wanna be in office, I wanna be in office" then there is no dialogue that includes us. Mr. Walsh is very good example of what the Tea Party represents. Short on responsibility long on finger pointing. No, the Tea Party contributes nothing positive to the conversation I'm afraid.

while forgetting the symbrionic relationship that the states have with the federal gov't ....Federal projects in TN, it's a good search feature.

volt fan in chatt, tn wrote:

That's such baloney...of course the federal government is to control some things specifically stated (enumerated powers) in the Constitution. All others are reserved to the states.

Yours is the typical remark by those on the left...what about highways, policeman, etc??...those are not socialist operation. Frankly, you don't even understand the concept of socialisism very well.

(chuckles) Judging from your response, your understanding is yet another proven and glaring example of Tea Party Loyalist clarity and reason. Have fun disagreeing with people simply because you elect a strange and sorted perspective on reality.

Have a nice day!

Vol fan

#6.17

Vol. Fan

It seems "The founding fathers" (what a loaded phrase conservative extremists have made THAT!) purpsely excluded socialism.....except when they wanted socialism.

I get no bigger chuckle then when I read a "Founding Fathers" statement on Newsvine.

I've quoted this many times on Newsvine, and never tire of it: "The United States is no longer a small nation of 13 colonies run by slave owning farmers, and hasn't been for centuries." (The Nation magaizine)

AZ, Voted Up with ALACRITY!

Barbara in Houston

I wanted to respond to your #4.48 comment re offensive racist posts on Newsvine. I suppose it's our collective cross to bear, but it would be very nice to not have to see such offensive trash littering otherwise good decent discussions.

I have used the "Inflammatory" reporting button many many times, and will continue to do so.

I'm afraid I've been far off the topic, but just couldn't let our friend go unchallenged re the black American / Welfare accusation.

Barbara in Houston

Friend request sent for using the word ALACRITY!, and I hope you accept it with some.

AZ,

Sadly, you are correct on all points. And I applaud your persistence in engaging those who would make deceitful statements, or disparage any group with misinformation.

Daniel,

FR accepted with alacrity! ;>)

When posting in public forums the use of verbosity could be regarded as floccinaucinihilipilification of those insipient of a Thesauraus; which would demonstrate a pusillanimous personality. Someone prone to such behvior may expiate themselves by conversing with people instead of at them.

Just sayin'....

The pretentious town drunk rasies suddenly at the town meeting and slurrs... "Scheisse is laden with ordure! "Thinking it’s pertinent.. and again passes out.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. Herbert H. Humphrey

Not "just saying" but making an important point.

See how easy that is! Good point and well made. (I hope mine was too.)

Painful Reality...#9

"I wonder how many of these Tea Party Loyalists know their history?"

Painful...Do people need to know about history to "see" what is going on right under their noses? I think not. What is needed is common sense, a deep devotion to freedom, love of our Country and Constitution and the desire to protect our Republic.

But thanks for the history lesson.

Suspiciously wrote:

I think not. What is needed is common sense, a deep devotion to freedom, love of our Country and Constitution and the desire to protect our Republic.

But thanks for the history lesson.

Agreed... You think not. Anymore crotchets?

See how easy that is! Good point and well made. (I hope mine was too.

So you don’t misunderstand again, as to what my last post meant...But as is sometimes said by the foolish, "Hope is eternal"

I’ve learned what most cognizant beings who live long enough on this earth eventual learn, but the constant cacophony of voices from an uneducated and emotionally numb civilization and the fallacy of being PC can obscure.

Let me explain why you and all your subversive reactionary friends have a right to tolerance as Americans but just as the town drunk, lost your right to have anyone pay any attention to you.

That there exists, not just 1, but 4 forms of respect.

There's Common respect, better expressed in truer term as "Honest respect.”

Everyone deserves it... It’s the First form and is free. And when it is mutual reciprocated it grows like a tree and gets stronger over time if nurtured properly. You give this respect to any stranger on the street, unless and until they betray it.

So this means respect can be lost or taken for transgressions to others.

Secondly, there’s “Earned” respect. This is a higher Form of respect then all the others, and can not be mutually exclusive of any of the other forms, but is in addition to them. This requires redemption.,, a great deal of good too make up for past transgression.

Then "Self respect", is the third form. To be mentally faithful to yourself, honest with yourself. It’s how we continue to better ourselves because no one is perfect. This is the value of being Humble, open minded and liberal in your thinking.. Being told you are wrong and having it proved to you is not disrespectful. If it were you parents, and every teacher who ever taught you were all rude and self-centered asses. So respect you mentors whenever one offers to teach you, everyone can teach you something negative or positively and we should try to learn something new every day..

Apropos.

It a sign of respect that they take the time to show you the error of your ways, to enlighten you. It's not Meanness or Hate, attacking your right to your own opinion, telling you are wrong and giving you evidence of your misunderstanding of fact... Rationalization is the act of being dishonest to yourself, self deception of an egotist... It’s casuistic reasoning to expect respect from others unless you first respect yourself, and this is not the self love of an egotist with is anti-social.

We exist within identity, not of relation, which last, requires 2 people, self-love is confined to the individual alone. So to ourselves, we can owe nothing. We have no moral obligations to ourselves, you mentally masturbate all you want, no one has a right to stop you. It's only when you begin to spread your self misconceptions on the world where you loose the respect of honest and rational people. "Morality" requires two parties to exist. so an excessive sense of self worth becomes amoral without any substantiation in reality. Egotism is becomes antithesis of morality.

"Honesty, disinterestedness and good nature are indispensable to procure the esteem and confidence of those with whom we live, and on whose esteem our happiness depends." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Eppes, 1816.

The latter deserve to be tolerated when they speak, but lost the right to be listened to.

You can't expect respect, or do you deserve it from those you refuse to give respect to. Truthfulness and the ability to validate yourself and what you say is a form of respect, and a very impotent one in an open and free society. Even as an essential component to any republic. The former has a right to speak and be heard...

And the final, the most basic and primitive form of Respect is the kind given to a snake. Your options are few, you can run from it, walk around it, catch and contain it, and if none of these can be done, kill it.

Learn to understand the snake and you never need to fear anything.

Fear kills cognition. Because the Far-Right reactionaries driving motivation in life is fear, the "reaction" to it controls their actions, and the use of it as a tool to divide and manipulate others to gain control and have power over what they can't or refuse to understand. And Yes, some Can’t and never will understand.

Ignorance is a disease and can be cured by open minds who want to learn, stupidity is terminal.

When basic social connections that constitute morality are understood and followed, even if you are a sociopath laws are unnecessary. If not, everything unknown is to be feared and so must be subjected or distroyed. Mankind is forced into a perpetual state of war because of the intrinsic stupidity of the Right.

If we are to survive as a species we must learn this.

I don’t post this here for you Kane because, invariable, you and most of the reactionaries in Newsvine will misconstrue it. It's for those who are still capable of reason that I'm here at all, not you.

I made some gramerian errors in this #9.24, and lost some points in typing this, I’m not a writer by any stench of the term, but because I think it’s so important, I’m posting it as an artical with the corrections as best as I can.

Daniel,

Any minor errors notwithstanding, your prose was both eloquent and illuminating.

Thank-you

You are all very welcome and thanks for your understanding.

HA... “stench” #9.25

I ment to type “stretch".. these spell checkers can have some interest and unexspected results. :)

Looking up thread, I’m glad that anyone reads any of what I say... I don’t ever vote on my own post so I can see if it was read... just saying.

"No man is so foolish but he may sometimes give another good counsel, and no man so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a master." Hunter S. Thompson

Not to worry Daniel,

It would seem our level of respect of each other is mutually shared.

I’d die to protect your right to express that Kane. Even though I’m absolutely sure, like all reactionaries, you’d deny me my rights if you could.

Even though I’m absolutely sure, like all reactionaries, you’d deny me my rights if you could.

Nope not at all. Remember I'm the one that got accused of being a Racist for defending their right to spew their garbage! And who was it that leveled that accusation again? Was that not an attempt at censorship? If not, it certainly appeared to be to me--the accused.

I may not like what you have to say, but I'll defend your right to say it until my death and I've proven that by my actions right here on this forum. How about you? You say that you would die to ensure my right to free speech but continue to denigrate my defense of free speech by lodging accusations of reactionary and racist at me. I am indeed ultra-conservative on some issues like illegal immigration but very progressive on education and healthcare. I am the first one to admit we need entitlements, but I'm also aware of the abusers of the system and the social stigma many feel when forced to avail themselves of them. Because of this I also suggested a program whereby you "earned" benefits through community service and in the process rdeduced the cost of government to provide the community with certain services. Progressive and Conservative all at the same time!

I'm not defined so easily as you might like me to be.

Actions speak louder than words sir; and yours belie your assertations.

You are, and not very smart either if you think that trying to enlighten you by showing you that your kind of backward thinking is bad for the country and should be ignored is censorship.

Telling this guy to STFU.. was censorship then to you?

"Fascism, which was not afraid to call itself reactionary... does not hesitate to call itself illiberal and anti-liberal. Benito Mussolini

Roll On Floor Laughing My Ass Off!!! Can't beat the facts can ya?

Censorship is the suppression of speech or other public communication which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or inconvenient to the general body of people as determined by a government, media outlet, or other controlling body.

So if you attempt to control the free exchange of speech, you are attempting to be a "controlling body". So Yes, telling someone to STFU is attempting to ce3nsor them because you are trying to control them! Doh!!!!

So, so far we have disproven the "reactionary" slur, then denial of censorship, and proven through the use of the dictionary on two occasions and the links to my articles as to whom is less informed in the discussion; that only leaves one question unanswered:

Care to make any more thinly veiled CoH violation insults to be disproved?

No, you proved how worthless your opinion is just fine.

As I said before but you can't seem To absorb, it's not your right to say it, it's your insistance that it's worth of crap, or that anyone cares what you or any reactionary has to say.
Funny how the tea batters believe so strongly in the myth of Trickel down economics but can' t learn anything factual even if you rub their noses in it.

Ah yes, the debating skills of George W. Bush are beginning to look good. HE at least did have enough sense to do a little bit of research on his opponents positions before engaging them in a debate!

Hmmm, trickle down? Seems like I've been there too! I'll give ya a hint--it's on my front page still. You might want to at least glance at it before slinging any more mud so wide of the mark.

No, you proved how worthless your opinion is just fine.

In so saying, aren't you calling your own opinions which I've shown many of mine mirror to be "worthless"? Dude, quit while you are still only a little behind...

The John Birch Society.

Sorry, they don't accept Socialist or Communist so I can't join. Know any more along my lines?

So you’re a Communist.

Another small government reactionary based theory of an alternate government concocted by the right to stop the spread of Democracy in the world that failed.

Daniel A. Hallo, you da man baby! All of your insightful comments have convinced me. I'm now a devot Capitalist. Go TEA PARTY!!! Oh wait, No you hate them. Okay then I'm now a devot Democrat! GO SOCIALISM!!! Oh No, you hate them too? Okay Back to the Right Wing we go then: GO REPUBLICANS!!!! Oh no, that won't work either for you. Middle of the road Independent? Yeah we can certainly see how "independent" your thinking is by your comments so far.

Hmmm, now I wonder exactly what we call a person who likes to derail a topic, who is all over the board trash talking/flaming, making personal attacks, and who is only interested in seeing how many people "agree" with their comments???

The term escapes me...

Good, then you are with us on elimination of the Pubs/Baggies in all future elections until the GOP shows some signs of being moderate, and capable of working for the people of the United States, and not their corporate masters.

Bully!

Yes! 10,000 %! None of them should working for any corporate or any one religious master. None of them! At this point in time there is no GOP.

That's why I call them the GOTP...

"Ceiling" means maximum amount allowed to owe then. To reach that ceiling I would imagine that consists of more borrowing since I think we can all agree we are flat broke now? In all essence it is a blank check unless every penny of the increase that is eventually agreed on, is applied to the debt. So spin away on that one.

Mike-2454251 wrote:

"Ceiling" means maximum amount allowed to owe then. To reach that ceiling I would imagine that consists of more borrowing since I think we can all agree we are flat broke now? In all essence it is a blank check unless every penny of the increase that is eventually agreed on, is applied to the debt. So spin away on that one.

There is no "spin" in SW Missouri Mule's post.

The truth is that the United States doesn’t need, and shouldn’t have, a debt ceiling. Every other democratic country, with the exception of Denmark, does fine without one. There’s no debt limit in the Constitution. And, if Congress really wants to hold down government debt, it already has a way to do so that doesn’t risk economic chaos—namely, the annual budgeting process. The only reason we need to lift the debt ceiling, after all, is to pay for spending that Congress has already authorized.

ok President Obama's Proposed Budget, $4 trillion in spending cuts with tax reform

Senate $2.2 trillion in spending cuts with no tax reform

House: a measly measly $917 billino with no tax reform and a Budget Amendment that's going to Cost Money to Pass.

LOL so much for the Republicans idea of "paying down the deficit".

I guess then if the true cost of all liabilities were added (SS, Medicare, Pensions, debt, vendors, etc...) were known, the current talk about the '16 or so Trillion' would be peanuts and a walk in the park if people paid attention...

On CNN during Ari's show one of the guest's pegged US liabilities at over 60 Trillion...

But, at least some are talking about 'the current' known debt now and looking to pay it down somehow...

Obama's budget? Seriously? He hasn't done anything in the form of a budget in almost three years! He is not even engaged in this whole mess, he doesn't want to get his hands dirty- he called Harry and Nancy to pull his butt out again. Loser

Crystal, you do realize you are uninformed?

He hasn't done anything in the form of a budget in almost three years!

Obama’s 2012 Budget Proposal: How It’s Spent - NYTimes.com

There you go, debate the merits of the proposal.

Thank you Pacific, I think i am going to go see .'Cowboys and Aliens', hold the fort down for me though.

Groupies?

Plenty!

From what I have actually heard her say, not just the snippets, she is another embarrassment to women. We have intelligent, dynamic, hard working women in the house and senate. Listen to them speak. They are leaders. Bachmann is not.

What has me curious about Mrs. Bachman is her outrage over criticisms of her husband's behavior should be questioned after her long held conviction and broadcast that wives should be submissive to their husbands, and she decides to change that one she gets into the White House? I don't think so and in that regard, if he is her boss then we have a right to know just who will be running the policies of the Governor-in-Chief and just what he is about.

I've heard it said that one must be aware in order to be aware of ones faults. ( done in my best snobby English accent). ; O

Akin to the Know-Nothing party, eh Doc?

Their unwavering, narrow minded, reactionary view will have brought a great country to the edge of disaster.

We'll have to see which side of that "edge" we wind up on. The Repug plan (heavily influenced by baggie ideas) is a virtual suicide pact.

Yeah, what Doc said.

Well Doc, let's let history become history before we make too many predictions.

Let's suppose they are successful in forcing a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution. Let's also say that their actions do cause a crashing of the economy built upon debt. 30 years down the road, when the country has recovered and all is well and good again, the government is living within its means, my kids won't have to worry about unfunded mandates or having to bailout banks and private companies. I can live with that and I'm sure that the positive and long lasting effects will be judged as good things even if we percieve them as detrimental in the short term...

Mark..... I think you are describing MODERATES... Just a guess.

You think there are liberals and conservatives that can't think and make cogent connections with the world around them?

Granted there aren't too many of either these days but I meet some even here on the Vine.

And you are an economic expert? Credentials please.

My credentials? How about common sense?

One fan, if I met one subject of the survey, who just said "I think we should talk and work out our different ideas about the direction of our country is heading and how we can come to an agreement." I am a greenie and I have yet to encounter a member of your survey article who does not represent attitudes I find repugnant. Maybe they are out there, but as of now , all I see is a collection of hate attitudes.JMO

mindnumbing hypocrisy from the left:
The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a
sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay
its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial
assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless
fiscal policies. Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and
internationally. Leadership means that the buck stops here. Instead,
Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our
children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of
leadership. Americans deserve better."
- Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006

Quoted in National Review Online as well as Huffington Post.

--

Combine that point with the fact that Obama was only one of a small group of people that did say no to the raising of the debt ceiling then, which still did get raised with minimum of effort...

There wasn't a large vocal portion standing on ideolgoy and being stubborn to 'compromise' at that time...

That is a far cry from the situation today...far cry...not even comparable...

Seems to be typical of the business world. Expects far more than they deliver, one way relationships. All for one... and that one ME!!

You need help Weld. Because of a differing political opinion you feel the need to arm yourself because of it? Bull@!$%#. Nobody from the TP has threatened anybodies life. You just did by your comment. Now who's the real threat? Your the perfect example that even though everyone is entitled to own a firearm there are extenuating circumstances to those that shouldn't be allowed to own one, and you are a shining example of those that should "Never" be allowed to own one. You are to irresponsible and dangerous to be trusted with one. Your comment cements that opinion..

I call BS on that. I have been personally attacked here on the vine by tea party proponents and have heard many say that they wanted to rid the country of all liberals, by any means.

Because of a differing political opinion you feel the need to arm yourself because of it?

All rightie then, we have a winner! That has to be the daft comment of the year. No question. Are you kidding? Because there is no sarcasm indicator.

The reason: Because millions upon millions of TP's and GOP'ers who likely already owned multiple weapons went out and bought several million firearms and millions of rounds of ammo after Obama was elected. They were purely motivated by politics. I heard the rhetoric all around me. Talk of armed insurrection. Talk of overthrowing a duly elected government. An idiot I met even said, "The 2nd Amendment ain't about duck hunting". And I heard even worse but I can't really go there (sorry but legal reasons).

There is no doubt who would win a shooting war. But I would still never own a gun. Don't need one. And if you point one at me at close range you better squeeze that trigger fast or you might be having surgery to remove it from your rectum.

If the Tea Party ever take over this country it won't be worth living in any longer. This debt ceiling debate is just an early indicator. Even while that has been going on they have been trying to tear apart critical environmental legislation. I don't think they will ever gain control but as we saw in Germany in the late 1920's and 30's in tough economic times people do some crazy things.

These are among the most insecure of Americans. A bunch of homophobes, ideologues and xenophopes.

Mike:

Nobody from the TP has threatened anybodies life. You just did by your comment. Now who's the real threat?

You would really have to stretch to take his words as a threat! There have been actions in the past (during the election period) that were much more of a physical threat by persons from the alleged tea party, remember the neck step incident? You can gloss over that one and the others and claim WelDem made a threat, however, I think that even you know that is not factual!

I did not threaten, I did however show whom I believe is the biggest threat to America.

Weldem, this guy is just trying to stir up @!$%#. I know what you said and thought about doing the same. Probably a shotgun for my home defense.

I know that he was stirring the pot but felt the need to point out that he would be better off masturbating a grizzly bear with a hand full of barbed wire than to mess with older Libs, or in my case centrists.

I have T shirt that says ... Liberals have 2nd amendment rights too. Point is Tpublicans tend to think that the Constitution is an exclusionary charter for their private club.

I really needed that.

Thanks Jake

Nobody from the TP has threatened anybodies life

I truly wish I could show you the emails I turned over to my lawyer in the fall of '08 (yes the Tea Party existed then). You do not know how very wrong you are!

Even if your policies were not so wrong heading and damaging to this country I would never vote for any of your candidates after what I went through with the very first person I met who was a member of that group. A man whose name appeared as an endorsee on several TP candidates websites in my state because he is a revered ex-military pilot. Most threats are never publicly revealed. Suffice to say this event turned my life upside down for some time.

I am not easily phased but being questioned by the people I eventually talked to was beyond daunting. For that reason there will be no more specifics. But when I saw your words I just had to respond.

Stop kidding yourself!

#19.9...Jake-991574......I have T shirt that says ... Liberals have 2nd amendment rights too. Point is Tpublicans tend to think that the Constitution is an exclusionary charter for their private club.

The tbaggers incredible lack of knowledge of the Constitution combined with their unbelievable lack of skills as leaders and knowledge of how Govt. functions is legendary...and we found this out in only 7 mo.'s...

LMAO..I am getting the same T-Shirt...

With all the requirements of the Voter ID laws in various states, it would help to assist some people to get that requirement fulfilled far in advance of the time it is needed to head off the possibility of other obstacles being put in place at the last moment to prevent some from voting.

I'm with you on hopefully not coming to the worst case, but as I learned many years ago from the Scouts motto "Be Prepared". In many things I am liberal in others not so much so and I am definately not a dove. However before placing young men and women in harms way strong consideration must be taken, that all reasonable options be looked at without bias. I digress. Just wanted anyone ready to call me a lib, or tree hugger to know from where I come.